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National One-design Cruiser/Racer

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Tuning/Rudder on L/K Sonata

21st July 2005

timowen

21st July 2005 at 10:43 PM

My L/K Sonata sails close hauled in a fresh breeze with full main and No 1 and the rubbing strake just in the water with about 10+ degrees of weather helm and I can’t seem to reduce it by tweaking. I suspect the mast is raked too far back, but I will need a shorter forestay to change that. Also the rudder doesn’t seem to have enough area or length and I end up putting on more and more weather helm as the breeze freshens ’til the rudder stalls and the boat rounds up to windward. There is not much weight in the tiller – my 11 year old son can manage it OK. I have seen L/K Sonatas with lifting rudders but the extra length wasn’t enough to make much difference. Is the fin keel version fitted with a longer rudder? Is the problem down to tuning and weight distribution? I tried moving the keel back to shift the CLR & see if I could induce a bit more lee helm but without success

hasteaway

22nd July 2005 at 12:45 PM

The weather helm is caused by the boat heeling over too far. I would suggest you need to reduce sail at this point or de-power the mainsail when this happens. Even the fin keeled Sonata would be pulling on the helm a bit when heeled over this far, the Sonata’s fat hull means the helm loads up when heeled too far. There are some good tips on sailing the Sonata on the Goacher Sails website.

timowen

23rd July 2005 at 10:37 AM

Thanks, I am used to a very skinny boat and a rigid mast so I have some mental adjustments to make! I think I was too cautious in putting on kicker and backstay tension – I did put in a reef and changed to No 2 but by then the wind had freshened and I was more or less back to the same situation. I have a rather heavily laden cruising boat and no movable crew ballast to speak of which obviously doesn’t help. It is great fun to sail though!

BrianBrowne

7th August 2005 at 10:55 PM

Thanks, I am used to a very skinny boat and a rigid mast so I have some mental adjustments to make!  I think I was too cautious in putting on kicker and backstay tension – I did put in a reef and changed to No 2 but by then the wind had freshened and I was more or less back to the same situation.  I have a rather heavily laden cruising boat and no movable crew ballast to speak of which obviously doesn’t help.  It is great fun to sail though!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tim,

I agree with the other posts on heel angle and the hints on the Goacher website. I want to add one thing though – you are right that the rudder on the lift keel version is shorter than that on the fin keel version. I am not sure whether this would make any real difference or not. You could try a fin keel rudder to see the difference.

Brian

timowen

27th September 2005 at 9:35 AM

Brian,

Thanks – I have been more careful about trim etc but I still found that at times when cruising short handed I got caught out in gusts and the boat rounded up to windward without ever loading up to the point that a ten year old had problems holding the tiller, and before I thought it should. Once or twice it worried me as I was on starboard tack crossing another boat! Without any great drama, or feeling particularly pressed the rudder just looses grip completely and stalls. I heard the same comments from another owner of a L/K Sonata. I had believed that L/K rudders were shorter than the fin rudder, and I and the other owner were contempolating making a lifting rudder arrangement to accomodate a longer rudder – I got as far as a designing one, but when I checked the class rules on this site I found that my rudder was exactly as drawn for fin keel boats.

There seems to be a lot of interest in LK Sonatas at the moment – does any other L/K owner have this problem or is it my bad sailing or the trim of the boat, which I know to be heavier than the Hunter specs? I find it difficult to believe that I’m that far out on sail trim as it sails well and I’ve followed the available tips! I can see that with a beamy hull heeled over there isn’t much rudder still in the water – mine just seems as if it would benefit from more depth and area.

Tim

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